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	<title>Comments on: DEBATE AT LOLITA BAR: Is Zionism Racism?</title>
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	<link>http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/</link>
	<description>Conservatism for punks.</description>
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		<title>By: Kejda Gjermani &#187; The Other â€œOther McCainâ€</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-53678</link>
		<dc:creator>Kejda Gjermani &#187; The Other â€œOther McCainâ€</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/#comment-53678</guid>
		<description>[...] Leaving aside the misogynistic presumption that it must have been my husband who fed me “misinformationâ€ or “involvedâ€ me in anything, I must correct Stacey’s allegation that it was at a libertarian event or “Paulista gatheringâ€ that my husband and I met Richard Spencer. For someone so ostensibly committed to not jumping to conclusions without knowing “the facts,â€ Stacey is sure making up stuff out of thin air. For the record, we met Spencer at a debate titled “Is Zionism Racism?â€ There was a show of hands, and guess which way Richard Spencer voted? To this day, I remain wholly confused as to what his vote revealed about his attitude to Israel, because he seems to consider racism a positive. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Leaving aside the misogynistic presumption that it must have been my husband who fed me “misinformationâ€ or “involvedâ€ me in anything, I must correct Stacey’s allegation that it was at a libertarian event or “Paulista gatheringâ€ that my husband and I met Richard Spencer. For someone so ostensibly committed to not jumping to conclusions without knowing “the facts,â€ Stacey is sure making up stuff out of thin air. For the record, we met Spencer at a debate titled “Is Zionism Racism?â€ There was a show of hands, and guess which way Richard Spencer voted? To this day, I remain wholly confused as to what his vote revealed about his attitude to Israel, because he seems to consider racism a positive. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ToddSeavey.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Spector Is Haunting Rock</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-42232</link>
		<dc:creator>ToddSeavey.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Spector Is Haunting Rock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 12:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/#comment-42232</guid>
		<description>[...] (Perhaps all that can be a side discussion during tomorrow&#8217;s Zionism-themed Debate at Lolita Bar &#8212; which is not why the establishment is called that, by the way. It&#8217;s from the “Nolitaâ€/“Lolitaâ€ geographic distinction on the Lower East Side near Little Italy. Of course, if we ever do some sort of cross-promotion with the nearby Lolita Bra shop, people will have more reasonable grounds to criticize.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (Perhaps all that can be a side discussion during tomorrow&#8217;s Zionism-themed Debate at Lolita Bar &#8212; which is not why the establishment is called that, by the way. It&#8217;s from the “Nolitaâ€/“Lolitaâ€ geographic distinction on the Lower East Side near Little Italy. Of course, if we ever do some sort of cross-promotion with the nearby Lolita Bra shop, people will have more reasonable grounds to criticize.) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ToddSeavey.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Boat Will Rock</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-41828</link>
		<dc:creator>ToddSeavey.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Boat Will Rock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 04:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/#comment-41828</guid>
		<description>[...] She also sort of enjoys seeing tribes duke it out and thus if she weren&#8217;t in DC right now might enjoy tonight&#8217;s Debate at Lolita Bar about Zionism and its implications for the Palestinians.  Be there.  It wasn&#8217;t easy setting up an Israelis/Palestinians debate, by the way &#8212; my original wording, &#8220;Should Israel Give Up Land?&#8221; was rejected by the originally-planned pro-Israel debater as too pro-Palestinian and rejected by the pro-Palestinian debater as too pro-Israel.  I try. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] She also sort of enjoys seeing tribes duke it out and thus if she weren&#8217;t in DC right now might enjoy tonight&#8217;s Debate at Lolita Bar about Zionism and its implications for the Palestinians.  Be there.  It wasn&#8217;t easy setting up an Israelis/Palestinians debate, by the way &#8212; my original wording, &#8220;Should Israel Give Up Land?&#8221; was rejected by the originally-planned pro-Israel debater as too pro-Palestinian and rejected by the pro-Palestinian debater as too pro-Israel.  I try. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John David Galt</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-41780</link>
		<dc:creator>John David Galt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/#comment-41780</guid>
		<description>Those are three good, thoughtful pieces.

I won&#039;t argue for either side here -- but will note that the Israel/Palestine situation is a good counter-example to the leftist view that democracy and elected governments are the best way to ensure peace and stable government in any country.  This turns out to be true only when the majority of voters actually WANT peace.  Both the Knesset and the PA parliament have been dominated by pro-war factions for decades -- indeed, both of them dissolved in votes of no confidence rather than ratify the quite balanced Oslo accord in 1993.

I don&#039;t believe permanent peace will ever come to Israel/Palestine until one of the following happens.
(1) One of them (probably Israel) exterminates its opponents to the last man.
(2) Some strong outside country conquers both of them and imposes its rule with an iron hand.  (And today, I don&#039;t think even the US is strong enough to do this if it tried.)

I *do* believe that there will soon be a nuclear war in the region.  If I lived there, no matter what my religion/race, I would move far away.  Now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those are three good, thoughtful pieces.</p>
<p>I won&#8217;t argue for either side here &#8212; but will note that the Israel/Palestine situation is a good counter-example to the leftist view that democracy and elected governments are the best way to ensure peace and stable government in any country.  This turns out to be true only when the majority of voters actually WANT peace.  Both the Knesset and the PA parliament have been dominated by pro-war factions for decades &#8212; indeed, both of them dissolved in votes of no confidence rather than ratify the quite balanced Oslo accord in 1993.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe permanent peace will ever come to Israel/Palestine until one of the following happens.<br />
(1) One of them (probably Israel) exterminates its opponents to the last man.<br />
(2) Some strong outside country conquers both of them and imposes its rule with an iron hand.  (And today, I don&#8217;t think even the US is strong enough to do this if it tried.)</p>
<p>I *do* believe that there will soon be a nuclear war in the region.  If I lived there, no matter what my religion/race, I would move far away.  Now.</p>
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		<title>By: saifedean</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-41710</link>
		<dc:creator>saifedean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/#comment-41710</guid>
		<description>Jacob,

The interesting thing about the Rothbard piece is not any &quot;argument from authority&quot; nonsense. It is the actual content of the piece. Read it instead of knocking down strawmen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacob,</p>
<p>The interesting thing about the Rothbard piece is not any &#8220;argument from authority&#8221; nonsense. It is the actual content of the piece. Read it instead of knocking down strawmen.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Seavey</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-41119</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Seavey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 16:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/#comment-41119</guid>
		<description>Agreed.  Just valuable to see &quot;one who thinks like myself&quot; adopting a position one might not have been instinctively drawn to.  

(The whole post-9/11 period has been like that for a lot of libertarians, I hope, since many of us thought we agreed on virtually _everything_ back in the 90s when no one was paying much attention to foreign policy, and suddenly we realized we had radical hawks and radical doves and other curious creatures among us.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed.  Just valuable to see &#8220;one who thinks like myself&#8221; adopting a position one might not have been instinctively drawn to.  </p>
<p>(The whole post-9/11 period has been like that for a lot of libertarians, I hope, since many of us thought we agreed on virtually _everything_ back in the 90s when no one was paying much attention to foreign policy, and suddenly we realized we had radical hawks and radical doves and other curious creatures among us.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob T. Levy</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-41117</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob T. Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 16:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/#comment-41117</guid>
		<description>That Rothbard once took a policy position fails to even be an argument from authority that libertarians should take that position... as he changed his mind about a great many applied, foreign-policy, coalition-building, and other second-best questions over the course of his intellectual life.  Even someone who embraced his (consistent) philosophical core beliefs could not embrace all of his real-world as-applied beliefs simultaneously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That Rothbard once took a policy position fails to even be an argument from authority that libertarians should take that position&#8230; as he changed his mind about a great many applied, foreign-policy, coalition-building, and other second-best questions over the course of his intellectual life.  Even someone who embraced his (consistent) philosophical core beliefs could not embrace all of his real-world as-applied beliefs simultaneously.</p>
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		<title>By: alina</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-41111</link>
		<dc:creator>alina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 15:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddseavey.com/2009/05/28/debate-at-lolita-bar-is-zionism-racism/#comment-41111</guid>
		<description>Wish I could be there...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wish I could be there&#8230;</p>
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