Comments on: Morrison, India, and Lovecraft http://toddseavey.com/2008/07/26/morrison-india-and-lovecraft/ Conservatism for punks. Wed, 07 Jan 2009 03:31:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.9 by: Todd Seavey http://toddseavey.com/2008/07/26/morrison-india-and-lovecraft/#comment-16373 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:50:18 +0000 http://toddseavey.com/2008/07/26/morrison-india-and-lovecraft/#comment-16373 Well, I can attest that the Klostermann is good -- it also made me come to a realization about how my brain is wired, since I spotted him on the street about two weeks after reading the book and realized celebrities are everywhere in New York City but I only notice ones I'm actively thinking about (like Penn Jilette, though he's hard to miss). They're probably standing near me _right now_ and I can't even perceive them (unless, today, it's Grant Morrison or Lady Miss Kier). Well, I can attest that the Klostermann is good — it also made me come to a realization about how my brain is wired, since I spotted him on the street about two weeks after reading the book and realized celebrities are everywhere in New York City but I only notice ones I’m actively thinking about (like Penn Jilette, though he’s hard to miss). They’re probably standing near me _right now_ and I can’t even perceive them (unless, today, it’s Grant Morrison or Lady Miss Kier).

]]> by: Dee Lightful http://toddseavey.com/2008/07/26/morrison-india-and-lovecraft/#comment-16354 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:38:18 +0000 http://toddseavey.com/2008/07/26/morrison-india-and-lovecraft/#comment-16354 Have not read it. Also, I meant picked apart all over the web. There are not pages flapping around on my bedspread. It is on my leisure reading list as is that Cocoa Puffs & Rock 'n Roll book by Chuck Klostermann. But Lovecraft & the occult feature prominently in Our Gods Wear Spandex, which is why I brought it up. Have not read it. Also, I meant picked apart all over the web. There are not pages flapping around on my bedspread. It is on my leisure reading list as is that Cocoa Puffs & Rock ‘n Roll book by Chuck Klostermann. But Lovecraft & the occult feature prominently in Our Gods Wear Spandex, which is why I brought it up.

]]> by: Todd Seavey http://toddseavey.com/2008/07/26/morrison-india-and-lovecraft/#comment-16331 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:26:10 +0000 http://toddseavey.com/2008/07/26/morrison-india-and-lovecraft/#comment-16331 Truly delightful? It does look interesting. I have my leisure reading planned out through the first half of 2009 (mostly sci-fi classics for a spell, though for my November Book Selections I'm reading about global warming after some recent badgering), so I may have to settle for your summary if you read the Christopher Knowles book. Truly delightful? It does look interesting. I have my leisure reading planned out through the first half of 2009 (mostly sci-fi classics for a spell, though for my November Book Selections I’m reading about global warming after some recent badgering), so I may have to settle for your summary if you read the Christopher Knowles book.

]]> by: Dee Lightful http://toddseavey.com/2008/07/26/morrison-india-and-lovecraft/#comment-16328 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:07:16 +0000 http://toddseavey.com/2008/07/26/morrison-india-and-lovecraft/#comment-16328 Hi: Have you read Knowles' Our Gods Wear Spandex? Any good? I have seen it picked apart all over the bed but content-wise it seems delightful. Yes, delightful. Hi: Have you read Knowles’ Our Gods Wear Spandex? Any good? I have seen it picked apart all over the bed but content-wise it seems delightful. Yes, delightful.

]]> by: Jacob T. Levy http://toddseavey.com/2008/07/26/morrison-india-and-lovecraft/#comment-16295 Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:10:43 +0000 http://toddseavey.com/2008/07/26/morrison-india-and-lovecraft/#comment-16295 "But it never much delved into that neat idea — and was arguably even worse than _Genesis_." No. Not even arguably. Not even remotely. Not even close. “But it never much delved into that neat idea — and was arguably even worse than _Genesis_.”

No. Not even arguably. Not even remotely. Not even close.

]]> by: Todd Seavey http://toddseavey.com/2008/07/26/morrison-india-and-lovecraft/#comment-16203 Sat, 26 Jul 2008 14:42:46 +0000 http://toddseavey.com/2008/07/26/morrison-india-and-lovecraft/#comment-16203 I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they've given differing descriptions -- and wouldn't really blame them, since I can easily accept that supernatural beings (like time-altering crises) might not fit neatly into human categories (I'd worry more if, say, mere mortal Bruce Wayne had a sister in one story and was an orphan in another). However, the very explicit Byrne description of the Worlds went (1) primordial cosmic beasts, (2) mortals, (3) mythological pagan pantheons, and (4) New Gods -- and explicitly left out still-active religions to avoid being offensive, which means even the Hindu gods weren't used as part of Byrne's _Genesis_ miniseries (Darkseid also at one point implied the New Gods are older than the pagan gods, but he was later described as exaggerating). There's no reason they should feel bound to stick to that system, which has been largely ignored by later writers, but even if you're correctly remembering some alternate description, we could rationalize that the Titans arose with mortals and that Jehovah was a contemporary of Cthulhu and so forth. My lumping Gog in with the likes of Odin may seem odd, too (and may not be what Geoff Johns, currently depicting Gog in _Justice Society of America_, has in mind), but it's not far from Kirby's original plan, which was reportedly to do the New Gods stories as sequels to _Marvel's_ Thor comics, with the New Gods arising in the present day after Ragnarok arrives at last (Marvel has since decided Ragnarok is cyclical, incidentally, but that of course has no effect on DC's pantheons). If it were up to me, though, I'd be inclined to say all the pagan gods have to keep to the Third World, Titans or not, maybe even giving the pantheons their own subsidiary "pasts" that contradict and parallel each other, like a divine multiverse, which is what I vaguely recall thinking _War of the Gods_, with its war over creation myths, was going to be about, more or less. But it never much delved into that neat idea -- and was arguably even worse than _Genesis_. Best to just leave it all up to Johns and Morrison now, I suppose. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if they’ve given differing descriptions — and wouldn’t really blame them, since I can easily accept that supernatural beings (like time-altering crises) might not fit neatly into human categories (I’d worry more if, say, mere mortal Bruce Wayne had a sister in one story and was an orphan in another).

However, the very explicit Byrne description of the Worlds went (1) primordial cosmic beasts, (2) mortals, (3) mythological pagan pantheons, and (4) New Gods — and explicitly left out still-active religions to avoid being offensive, which means even the Hindu gods weren’t used as part of Byrne’s _Genesis_ miniseries (Darkseid also at one point implied the New Gods are older than the pagan gods, but he was later described as exaggerating).

There’s no reason they should feel bound to stick to that system, which has been largely ignored by later writers, but even if you’re correctly remembering some alternate description, we could rationalize that the Titans arose with mortals and that Jehovah was a contemporary of Cthulhu and so forth.

My lumping Gog in with the likes of Odin may seem odd, too (and may not be what Geoff Johns, currently depicting Gog in _Justice Society of America_, has in mind), but it’s not far from Kirby’s original plan, which was reportedly to do the New Gods stories as sequels to _Marvel’s_ Thor comics, with the New Gods arising in the present day after Ragnarok arrives at last (Marvel has since decided Ragnarok is cyclical, incidentally, but that of course has no effect on DC’s pantheons).

If it were up to me, though, I’d be inclined to say all the pagan gods have to keep to the Third World, Titans or not, maybe even giving the pantheons their own subsidiary “pasts” that contradict and parallel each other, like a divine multiverse, which is what I vaguely recall thinking _War of the Gods_, with its war over creation myths, was going to be about, more or less. But it never much delved into that neat idea — and was arguably even worse than _Genesis_.

Best to just leave it all up to Johns and Morrison now, I suppose.

]]> by: Jacob T. Levy http://toddseavey.com/2008/07/26/morrison-india-and-lovecraft/#comment-16200 Sat, 26 Jul 2008 12:09:14 +0000 http://toddseavey.com/2008/07/26/morrison-india-and-lovecraft/#comment-16200 "if they’re sticking at all to the cosmology that comics writer John Byrne worked out in the 90s" [shudder] M'Nagalah is an in-continuity Cthulian beastie kicking around the DCU. But I'd thought that, e.g., the Titans that preceded the Olympian gods were the second world (after all, there came a time when the old pantheons were <i>born,</i> too), with the implication that the DCU God / Heaven/ Silver City etc was First. “if they’re sticking at all to the cosmology that comics writer John Byrne worked out in the 90s”

[shudder]

M’Nagalah is an in-continuity Cthulian beastie kicking around the DCU.

But I’d thought that, e.g., the Titans that preceded the Olympian gods were the second world (after all, there came a time when the old pantheons were born, too), with the implication that the DCU God / Heaven/ Silver City etc was First.

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