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	<title>Comments on: Goldstein!  Goldstein!!  I Mean&#8230;Goldberg!  Goldberg!!</title>
	<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/</link>
	<description>Conservatism for punks.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Francis</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-9263</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 08:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-9263</guid>
					<description>I don't know the names of all my logical fallacies, but taking the juvenile comments in the Goldberg thread as proof "that self-perpetuating hate is all the left has to offer" has got to be one of them.  I mean, your sample set is skewed; you're only seeing comments from the sort of people who leave comments like that.

This incivility is hardly a liberal-based problem -- or even conservative-based, though god forbid you write something that gets you on the bad side of the Freepers.  It's all over the web, presumably because the anonymizing effect of the web makes people feel like they have carte blanche to be as much of a jerk as they please.

Specifically to political discourse, though, I think the tone of the overall discussion has deteriorated considerably over the years, but if I were going to try to trace it back to a source, I think I'd have to say that it was Rush Limbaugh that started it all, with his gleefully malicious mockery generally not backed by facts.  Bill O'Reilly followed, and I have to suspect that if left-wing discourse has become more uncivil, it's in response to the fact that being civil didn't do us a fucking lick of good in defending ourselves against the logic-free attacks of right wing pundits who weren't concerning themselves with such niceties.  (Which would, in the public service announcement on this subject, lead up to a young liberal child shouting at his neocon father, "I learned it from watching you!")</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know the names of all my logical fallacies, but taking the juvenile comments in the Goldberg thread as proof &#8220;that self-perpetuating hate is all the left has to offer&#8221; has got to be one of them.  I mean, your sample set is skewed; you&#8217;re only seeing comments from the sort of people who leave comments like that.</p>
<p>This incivility is hardly a liberal-based problem &#8212; or even conservative-based, though god forbid you write something that gets you on the bad side of the Freepers.  It&#8217;s all over the web, presumably because the anonymizing effect of the web makes people feel like they have carte blanche to be as much of a jerk as they please.</p>
<p>Specifically to political discourse, though, I think the tone of the overall discussion has deteriorated considerably over the years, but if I were going to try to trace it back to a source, I think I&#8217;d have to say that it was Rush Limbaugh that started it all, with his gleefully malicious mockery generally not backed by facts.  Bill O&#8217;Reilly followed, and I have to suspect that if left-wing discourse has become more uncivil, it&#8217;s in response to the fact that being civil didn&#8217;t do us a fucking lick of good in defending ourselves against the logic-free attacks of right wing pundits who weren&#8217;t concerning themselves with such niceties.  (Which would, in the public service announcement on this subject, lead up to a young liberal child shouting at his neocon father, &#8220;I learned it from watching you!&#8221;)
</p>
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		<title>by: Brain</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-9005</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 18:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-9005</guid>
					<description>&#62;

No, Todd is just a promising LISP writer (there's that indicative capitalization and parentheses))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;</p>
<p>No, Todd is just a promising LISP writer (there&#8217;s that indicative capitalization and parentheses))
</p>
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		<title>by: Jimmie</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-9004</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-9004</guid>
					<description>"They think that by putting all of their character points into INT..."

A D&#38;D and a Lord of the Rings reference in the same comment. Nice, Bill!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They think that by putting all of their character points into INT&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>A D&amp;D and a Lord of the Rings reference in the same comment. Nice, Bill!
</p>
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		<title>by: fishbane</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-8961</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-8961</guid>
					<description>My goodness. A well known political humor site mocks a book review of an incredibly silly book (by a man who likes to explore a bit of offensive genitalia reference himself), exploring a topic which has never been explorerated in such depth or nuance, with a Hitler mustache on the cover, and out come the smelling salts.

Well, I never! Where's my fainting couch?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My goodness. A well known political humor site mocks a book review of an incredibly silly book (by a man who likes to explore a bit of offensive genitalia reference himself), exploring a topic which has never been explorerated in such depth or nuance, with a Hitler mustache on the cover, and out come the smelling salts.</p>
<p>Well, I never! Where&#8217;s my fainting couch?
</p>
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		<title>by: Bilwick</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-8946</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-8946</guid>
					<description>"I'm going to sic the State on you for calling me a fascist!" Savor the irony.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I&#8217;m going to sic the State on you for calling me a fascist!&#8221; Savor the irony.
</p>
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		<title>by: Patrick Carroll</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-8937</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-8937</guid>
					<description>I enjoyed this post.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed this post.  Thanks.
</p>
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		<title>by: cokane</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-8925</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 06:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-8925</guid>
					<description>You're pathetic. Casting a website that makes a couple posts about you and its comments as an attacking mob is the pit of absurdity. You sound like a baby whining about this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re pathetic. Casting a website that makes a couple posts about you and its comments as an attacking mob is the pit of absurdity. You sound like a baby whining about this.
</p>
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		<title>by: dave</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-8924</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 06:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-8924</guid>
					<description>I'd like to see the right wing response to a laudatory review of "It takes a village."

Ignorance and vitriol know no ideology. 

The fight should be against ignorance and hate. I lean left and disagreed with the opinions in that book review, but I was disturbed and disappointed at, (but mostly bored by) the comments against it. That review, if nothing else, should have been a springboard for a stress test of ideas. It would have been more enjoyable than a bunch of people calling each other morons and murderers.

By the way, the commenter who said "What a moronic post" offered no less of an explanation than the commenter who said "Very well done."  Dumbing down isn't only bad when a group of others does it. 

Anyway Todd, keep up the good work. I enjoy the blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to see the right wing response to a laudatory review of &#8220;It takes a village.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ignorance and vitriol know no ideology. </p>
<p>The fight should be against ignorance and hate. I lean left and disagreed with the opinions in that book review, but I was disturbed and disappointed at, (but mostly bored by) the comments against it. That review, if nothing else, should have been a springboard for a stress test of ideas. It would have been more enjoyable than a bunch of people calling each other morons and murderers.</p>
<p>By the way, the commenter who said &#8220;What a moronic post&#8221; offered no less of an explanation than the commenter who said &#8220;Very well done.&#8221;  Dumbing down isn&#8217;t only bad when a group of others does it. </p>
<p>Anyway Todd, keep up the good work. I enjoy the blog.
</p>
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		<title>by: Eric Blair</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-8920</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 05:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-8920</guid>
					<description>Todd Seavey, Greg Swann and Bill Whittle are morons? Now that I can believe!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd Seavey, Greg Swann and Bill Whittle are morons? Now that I can believe!
</p>
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		<title>by: Eric Blair</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-8919</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 05:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/27/goldstein-goldstein-i-meangoldberg-goldberg/#comment-8919</guid>
					<description>Orwell was a socialist? I don't believe it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Orwell was a socialist? I don&#8217;t believe it!
</p>
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