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	<title>Comments on: Book Selection of the Month: &#8220;Liberal Fascism&#8221; by Jonah Golderg (plus war and globalism)</title>
	<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/</link>
	<description>Conservatism for punks.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 06:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Dylan</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8954</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 21:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8954</guid>
					<description>Todd Heap --

Yeah, I agree with you. Goldberg seems to be playing their own game in many ways by using the term "Fascism," which they have no problem tossing around, um, liberally, until it's tossed at them.
But that's what concerns me a bit about it. Again, having not read the book, I still think the idea of using that term is kind of sinking to their level. Because terms like "fascist," "nazi," "socialist," "communist," etc each have a distinct definition, and it's very easy to show how a modern liberal in many ways doesn't fit into any single one exactly (and how plenty of things about the right might fit into some of them as well). 
A liberal friend of mine once called my positions (fairly libertarian-leaning) "fascist." I responded that if either of our positions could be described in such a way, it'd be her faith in big government, not my skepticism of same. But I made it clear that I was not in any way trying to suggest that she was actually a nazi or a fascist. 
And I have nothing against Goldberg -- I've read his articles before and never thought he was out of his mind or offensive. But he does write for National Review, and has often supported Bush and the Iraq War, two positions which, in my view, are hard to reconcile with the argument that those who support big government are fascists (unless he considers himself one). 
But I won't draw too many conclusions till I read the thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd Heap &#8211;</p>
<p>Yeah, I agree with you. Goldberg seems to be playing their own game in many ways by using the term &#8220;Fascism,&#8221; which they have no problem tossing around, um, liberally, until it&#8217;s tossed at them.<br />
But that&#8217;s what concerns me a bit about it. Again, having not read the book, I still think the idea of using that term is kind of sinking to their level. Because terms like &#8220;fascist,&#8221; &#8220;nazi,&#8221; &#8220;socialist,&#8221; &#8220;communist,&#8221; etc each have a distinct definition, and it&#8217;s very easy to show how a modern liberal in many ways doesn&#8217;t fit into any single one exactly (and how plenty of things about the right might fit into some of them as well).<br />
A liberal friend of mine once called my positions (fairly libertarian-leaning) &#8220;fascist.&#8221; I responded that if either of our positions could be described in such a way, it&#8217;d be her faith in big government, not my skepticism of same. But I made it clear that I was not in any way trying to suggest that she was actually a nazi or a fascist.<br />
And I have nothing against Goldberg &#8212; I&#8217;ve read his articles before and never thought he was out of his mind or offensive. But he does write for National Review, and has often supported Bush and the Iraq War, two positions which, in my view, are hard to reconcile with the argument that those who support big government are fascists (unless he considers himself one).<br />
But I won&#8217;t draw too many conclusions till I read the thing.
</p>
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		<title>by: Ray Lewis</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8949</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8949</guid>
					<description>When did you stop beating your wife, MonkeyBoy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When did you stop beating your wife, MonkeyBoy?
</p>
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		<title>by: Todd Heap</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8948</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8948</guid>
					<description>Thanks for a thoughtful review.  The debate forums at Amazon reveal the enormous double-standard raging in the Leftist brain.  They call conservatives fascist and Nazi if they detect even the slightest similarity.  However, when Jonah turns the tables, suddenly it's completely unfair to use these terms since Leftists don't actually want to build concentration camps and exterminate Jews.  These words, once thrown out so casually, suddenly acquire a very narrow definition.

I don't know how people live with such cogniive dissonance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for a thoughtful review.  The debate forums at Amazon reveal the enormous double-standard raging in the Leftist brain.  They call conservatives fascist and Nazi if they detect even the slightest similarity.  However, when Jonah turns the tables, suddenly it&#8217;s completely unfair to use these terms since Leftists don&#8217;t actually want to build concentration camps and exterminate Jews.  These words, once thrown out so casually, suddenly acquire a very narrow definition.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how people live with such cogniive dissonance.
</p>
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		<title>by: inmypajamas</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8940</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8940</guid>
					<description>Very helpful review.  I will definitely be buying the book (I am a little mystified at the claim of some commenters that they have read the book when it is not on sale yet).  I also thought your "Goldstein" post was exceptional.  Your description of the left's considering their hate to be "the holy and justified kind" is pretty evident in the comments you refer to.

MB, may I suggest that you review the &lt;a href="http://wuzzadem.typepad.com/wuz/2006/07/greenpuppet.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;primer&lt;/a&gt; on the net's premiere sock-puppeter, a dedicated lefty, Glenn Greenwald.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very helpful review.  I will definitely be buying the book (I am a little mystified at the claim of some commenters that they have read the book when it is not on sale yet).  I also thought your &#8220;Goldstein&#8221; post was exceptional.  Your description of the left&#8217;s considering their hate to be &#8220;the holy and justified kind&#8221; is pretty evident in the comments you refer to.</p>
<p>MB, may I suggest that you review the <a href="http://wuzzadem.typepad.com/wuz/2006/07/greenpuppet.html" rel="nofollow">primer</a> on the net&#8217;s premiere sock-puppeter, a dedicated lefty, Glenn Greenwald.
</p>
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		<title>by: Patrick Carroll</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8936</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 14:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8936</guid>
					<description>Thanks for the review.  I look forward to the book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the review.  I look forward to the book.
</p>
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		<title>by: MonkeyBoy</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8923</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 05:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8923</guid>
					<description>Todd, you own the blog.

Rather than say you think there are more left-wing sock puppets here than Jonah Goldberg sock puppets, you can just look at the IP addresses of the posts and out anybody that posts from the same IP address.

Since you didn't do this I guess you are covering up for Goldberg acting as a sock puppet. He is probably too stupid to realize that his IP address stays the same no matter which username he uses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd, you own the blog.</p>
<p>Rather than say you think there are more left-wing sock puppets here than Jonah Goldberg sock puppets, you can just look at the IP addresses of the posts and out anybody that posts from the same IP address.</p>
<p>Since you didn&#8217;t do this I guess you are covering up for Goldberg acting as a sock puppet. He is probably too stupid to realize that his IP address stays the same no matter which username he uses.
</p>
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		<title>by: cokane</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8913</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 02:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8913</guid>
					<description>so Bush sets up secret prisons, advocates torture, invades foreign countries, hires a paramilitary force that is above the law, etc, and yet it is taxes on the rich that are fascist? Right</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so Bush sets up secret prisons, advocates torture, invades foreign countries, hires a paramilitary force that is above the law, etc, and yet it is taxes on the rich that are fascist? Right
</p>
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		<title>by: thomass</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8910</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 01:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8910</guid>
					<description>Sean Hastings &#124; 7:37 pm on the 26th of December, 2007 

"But this says nothing about whether it is a modern Democrat or Republican in the US whom is closer to being a Nazi. They are both far too close for my liking, and are about equidistant from Hitler’s politics, each embracing different aspects of Fascism. "

Fair enough, but if it takes the air out of the progressive's sails (and/or windbag) of accusing American conservatives of being closet Nazis... then its worth a go. :)

Basically, pot to kettle to the progressives. 

Anyway, its probably not that bad around the country but I live in the San Fran bay area… and there are plenty of lunatics convinced that US conservative = fascist… while at the same time they are Hugo Chavez / Castro apologists… et cetera… 

Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean Hastings | 7:37 pm on the 26th of December, 2007 </p>
<p>&#8220;But this says nothing about whether it is a modern Democrat or Republican in the US whom is closer to being a Nazi. They are both far too close for my liking, and are about equidistant from Hitler’s politics, each embracing different aspects of Fascism. &#8221;</p>
<p>Fair enough, but if it takes the air out of the progressive&#8217;s sails (and/or windbag) of accusing American conservatives of being closet Nazis&#8230; then its worth a go. :)</p>
<p>Basically, pot to kettle to the progressives. </p>
<p>Anyway, its probably not that bad around the country but I live in the San Fran bay area… and there are plenty of lunatics convinced that US conservative = fascist… while at the same time they are Hugo Chavez / Castro apologists… et cetera… </p>
<p>Cheers
</p>
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		<title>by: thomass</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8909</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 01:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8909</guid>
					<description>I'm not against the book, but the reviews are making it sound like he is arguing fascism actually is 'left wing'... which is problematic... a better / more accurate argument would be it was a hybrid (of extreme right and left) and furthermore American Conservatism is not right wing by Euro standards... its basically 'liberal' (or has more overlap with it than Euro conservatism)... The Euro right wing was anti American democracy, anti free market, anti individual… like the left… but still, it was different and this should be explained... On the other hand, I think the argument that it (the old right) has mostly since been absorbed by the left (anti globos, identity politics, naturalism, non Christian spiritualists) is perfectly fair....

Anyway, I look forward to reading it and I hope he does not make that argument (that Nazism, or Italian Fascism, was actually pure left wingery)… It simplifies things so much as to be inaccurate…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not against the book, but the reviews are making it sound like he is arguing fascism actually is &#8216;left wing&#8217;&#8230; which is problematic&#8230; a better / more accurate argument would be it was a hybrid (of extreme right and left) and furthermore American Conservatism is not right wing by Euro standards&#8230; its basically &#8216;liberal&#8217; (or has more overlap with it than Euro conservatism)&#8230; The Euro right wing was anti American democracy, anti free market, anti individual… like the left… but still, it was different and this should be explained&#8230; On the other hand, I think the argument that it (the old right) has mostly since been absorbed by the left (anti globos, identity politics, naturalism, non Christian spiritualists) is perfectly fair&#8230;.</p>
<p>Anyway, I look forward to reading it and I hope he does not make that argument (that Nazism, or Italian Fascism, was actually pure left wingery)… It simplifies things so much as to be inaccurate…
</p>
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		<title>by: Bill Whittle</title>
		<link>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8908</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 01:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://toddseavey.com/2007/12/23/book-selection-of-the-month-liberal-fascism-by-jonah-golderg-plus-war-and-globalism/#comment-8908</guid>
					<description>It seem to me that this is actually very simple.

The essential core of fascism is worship of the state over the individual. It's really that simple. All of the millions of murders committed in the name of this ideology come from the belief that the state is everything and the people nothing.

Now, ask yourself: in America today, who tends to support large giovernment? Who looks to a large and powerful state to solve the problems of society? Liberals or Conservatives? 

If you replace the word "Fascism" with "Totalitarianism" the picture is much clearer, as Fascism is a word with historical tethers. The Nazi's were Big State, anti-individualits. So were the Soviets and the Cinese Commiunists, and the Cubans, and the North Koreans, the Sandinistas, and on and on. Some of the common hallmarks of totalitarian states are that they are anti-capitalist, anti-gun ownership, anti-religous and anti-free speech. American liberals are all of the first three, and as the reviews at SN clearly show, only for the latter when it is their speech they are defending. Anything contrary to to the Party Line must be villified, and if you can't do that with fact and logic then they will do it with things like claims of "sock puppetry" and elevated analyses like "Momma's Boy" and "Blubber Butt."

Scratch most liberals and you will find a totalitarian, a person who feel they could cure all of society's ills if they could just get their hand on the whip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seem to me that this is actually very simple.</p>
<p>The essential core of fascism is worship of the state over the individual. It&#8217;s really that simple. All of the millions of murders committed in the name of this ideology come from the belief that the state is everything and the people nothing.</p>
<p>Now, ask yourself: in America today, who tends to support large giovernment? Who looks to a large and powerful state to solve the problems of society? Liberals or Conservatives? </p>
<p>If you replace the word &#8220;Fascism&#8221; with &#8220;Totalitarianism&#8221; the picture is much clearer, as Fascism is a word with historical tethers. The Nazi&#8217;s were Big State, anti-individualits. So were the Soviets and the Cinese Commiunists, and the Cubans, and the North Koreans, the Sandinistas, and on and on. Some of the common hallmarks of totalitarian states are that they are anti-capitalist, anti-gun ownership, anti-religous and anti-free speech. American liberals are all of the first three, and as the reviews at SN clearly show, only for the latter when it is their speech they are defending. Anything contrary to to the Party Line must be villified, and if you can&#8217;t do that with fact and logic then they will do it with things like claims of &#8220;sock puppetry&#8221; and elevated analyses like &#8220;Momma&#8217;s Boy&#8221; and &#8220;Blubber Butt.&#8221;</p>
<p>Scratch most liberals and you will find a totalitarian, a person who feel they could cure all of society&#8217;s ills if they could just get their hand on the whip.
</p>
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