VS. 
YES: Sander Hicks, founder of Soft Skull Press, Vox Pop, and Drench Kiss Media and author of The Big Wedding: 9/11, the Whistle-Blowers, and the Cover-Up.
NO: Karol Sheinin, blogger at AlarmingNews.com (at one point guest blogger for Michelle Malkin) and founder of the counter-protest group Actual Truth About 9/11.
This contentious issue will be broached next week on Wednesday, November 7 (at 8pm) on the basement level of Lolita Bar (266 Broome St. at Allen St., one block south and three west of the Delancey St. subway stop on Manhattan’s Lower East Side) — with Michel Evanchik moderating and Todd Seavey hosting.
In just-barely-related news, constitutionalists and conspiracists alike may enjoy tonight’s (Oct. 30) Tonight show appearance by my favorite presidential candidate, Ron Paul, as noted in yesterday’s entry, not that some Truther support for Paul makes him a Truther-endorser (or militia man, or Bircher, etc.) — but he probably wouldn’t put such chicanery past the government, either. In the interests of hostal neutrality, I will say no more until after next week’s debate, though.
How did I come to know two people with such opposing takes on this issue? Well, Karol co-hosts the monthly Manhattan Project non-leftist media gatherings with me and Mark Cunningham, while Sander (who, despite his being a Marxist and onetime pursuer of the NY Green Party nomination for Senate, I met through libertarian novelist Katherine Taylor of all people) is technically responsible for me hosting all of these Debates at Lolita Bar, since it was his invitation to see him debate the pros and cons of globalization that led, in 2002, to me first encountering the Jinx Society, then the hosts of the debates. (As it happens, I recall that the cover of National Review on stands the week of 9/11/01 depicted a scary-looking antiglobalization protester with the slogan “Back to the Barricades!” though that antiglobalization protester with his black mask and his fist in the air looked like a well-mannered piker after the Trade Center came down.)
One constant since those early debating days: Michel Evanchik was the moderator then, as Sander faced off against globalist L.B. Deyo (a tenant in the building where Sander was a super), and Michel will be the moderator next week, lo these five years later — during which time L.B. has moved to Austin, TX (whence came the Raspberry Boys comedy troupe, including L.B.’s friend Jerm Pollet, who I saw host and joke their way through a screening of the Halloween-ish 1987 film The Lost Boys last week, with a young Kiefer Sutherland playing a teenage vampire instead of a tough agent and sometime reluctant torturer with exactly 24 hours to save America, over and over again); Sander has married, become a father, divorced, developed an interest in Gandhi instead of violent revolution, and founded a socialism-themed cafe (in Karol’s Brooklyn neighborhood); and Karol has gone from Nader voter (!) to a war-on-terror hawk.
But then, look at me: rooting for Bush then and for Paul now, though I haven’t changed all that much. Come help us sort it all out next week, on Nov. 7. (No chants, shouted interruptions, or rioting, please — your enthusiasm is appreciated, but we’re there to hear both debaters do their thing.)
22 comments:
Of course. Science doesn’t lie. Steel frame buildings CANNOT crumble down into the path of greastest resistance at free fall speed absent controlled demolition. It is simply physically impossible. The whole point of controlled demo is to use gravity to bring down the structure by blowing out all the support collums in a controlled sequence. This is what i don’t understand about the resistance to questioning the official 9/11 story. The speed of the collapses, along with their perfect symmetry into their own footprints, the presence of high temp explosives all points to controlled demo. The gvt must have been involved to wire WTC7….it was a seriously high security govt bldg.
I plan on being there as Sheinin smacks down…
http://www.forgotten-ny.com
Oh god.
I cant imagine this being a particularly civil affair.
Science doesn’t lie. Steel frame buildings CANNOT crumble down into the path of greastest resistance at free fall speed absent controlled demolition
The trade centers were supported largely by their exoskeleton. The interior frames were not designed to be smashed to bits and superheated. There are reams of scientific analysis of how it happened. Frontline did a whole hour on it. The answers to the obvious are out there, its a matter of actually reading it.
To buy your whole premise you have to assume there is some benefit to blowing up the world trade center by the government, which is an even harder pill to sell anyone with critical capacity
I can’t be there. Are their plans to film and You Tube it?
Thanks.
I don’t think so.
Rbrand, perhaps science doesn’t “lie” but I think you have the science *wrong* in this case. The towers were not supported primarily by interior “support columns” but by a combination of vertical steel trusses in their outer shells and their central elevator cores.
I would recommend the PBS documentary by Ric Burns called “The Center of the World” to get a full history of the towers, including their unique structural features.
Civility is still possible. I am personally committed to a clean, sincere, formal debate. It will follow its own rules. The moderators can be counted on to keep it free of interruptions, rudeness, or insanity. It must. The issue here is too important.
I’m also committed to be like the Apostle Paul, and “fight the good fight” in a rigorous, erudite, competitive struggle this Wednesday. In fact, I feel empathy for Karol, to have to defend such an untenable position, to have to stand with the globally-hated Bush and Cheney and Kissinger, war-mongerers with blood on their hands. Ah, but I digress. See you THERE, Wednesday, 8 PM, Nolita Bar!
Rudy,
Where are those flight recorders buried?
LC
Kissinger? Jeeeeeeez.
70% percent of family members questions were UNANSWERED during the 9/11 commission.
Whoever feels that the govt. told us the complete and correct story is turning blind eyes and ears to murder. And how on Earth can anyone believe what we’ve been told about 9/11 by a complicit govt. when this criminal administration has lied to us almost every day since …
http://www.ae911truth.org
http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org
http://www.patriotsquestion911.org
http://www.stj911.org
Hmm, Kissinger, yes … as in, the first Bush appointee to Chair the INDEPENDENT 9/11 Commission… you know, the one who had to resign before the Commission got underway because he wouldn’t come clean on his conflicts of interest. The one who was then replaced by ‘independent’ commissioners, each of whom had close ties to either the airline industry or the oil industry. I’m interested in how someone who defends the government’s tale of what happened on 9/11 answers the simple question, “Why can’t we have an independent investigation into the questions surrounding 9/11?” Particularly if we’re going to spend trillions of dollars, kill millions of people, and destroy the very basis of our country’s governance and our way of life based on what a commission tells us is truth… seems like a simple thing to ask, eh? One that, say, 51% of Americans want to see happen…
Unfortunately, the question for debate was “Did the Government Know in Advance About 9/11?†In order to come to any conclusion, we would first have to debate all of the many anomalies that occurred on that day. In my opinion, after tirelessly looking into as many of those anomalies as I could for the past six years, the strongest evidence in support of an inside job is in the building collapses.
The White House has stonewalled most requests for evidence in support of their own conspiracy theory, but the physical attributes of the collapses are available for all of us to analyze. Dust is available to analyze. Photographs of melted box columns are available. Physics textbooks are available.
I think we should have debated whether explosives were physically necessary to bring the three WTC towers down in the manner that they fell. After coming to a conclusion on that single topic, it will be much easier to debate “Did the Government Know in Advance About 9/11?â€
http://www.LooseChangeTheFinalCut.com
http://www.RonPaul2008.com
Yet the 911 truth movement doesnt have a problem with the following issue as expressed by janice ” your director”
matthews…
“Jimmy Walters, who appeared at St Marks Church at a 911 truth event and showed a film focusing on the sexual habits, homosexuality, beastiality and sexual perversions (IN DETAIL !) of members of the Bush administration. Many of those in attendance left, appalled at the content being presented at a Les Jamieson promoted 911 event.”
” I firmly believe that many of the alleged passengers on the alleged aircraft are still alive, and quite frankly, I think they were all working for the Goverment.”
(Jimmy Walters) *promoter of Willie “im a hero pay me” rodrigues (NYCCAN)
Les Jamieson (FRAUD)
National Coordinator
NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative / NYCCAN
Please Donate…?
They illegally indicated people could have a tax write-off for donations to a political cause putting St Mark’s 501c3 at legal risk when raising money for the 9/11 Ballot initiative designed by Carl Person. This initiative had the all important Office of City Attorney General included so that the required funding plan could be included; without it it would never fly. Whoever wanted a real investigation to NOT happen realized the danger that Office of City Attorney General presented for not only 911 Truth but many other urgent wrongs, including our financial crisis.
Regarding NYCCAN:
They illegally indicated people could have a tax write-off for donations to a political cause putting St Mark’s 501c3 at legal risk when raising money for the 9/11 Ballot initiative designed by Carl Person. This initiative had the all important Office of City Attorney General included so that the required funding plan could be included; without it it would never fly. Whoever wanted a real investigation to NOT happen realized the danger that Office of City Attorney General presented for not only 911 Truth but many other urgent wrongs, including our financial crisis.
“My sources in the Obama Administration also inform me that Federal agents are planning a raid.â€
Les Jamieson | 13 April 2009
“I personally sat down with local law enforcement.â€
Les Jamieson | 05.28.09 – 6:08 pm
Les Jamieson
National Coordinator
NYC Ballot Initiative / NYCCAN
Please donate more.
MURDER MURDER MURDER !!!
“Dan Wallace was the son of Lt. Robert Wallace, a NYC firefighter who perished in the 911 attacks. Dan realized that the story the government gave his family was fraudulent. He became an ardent 911 Truth Activist, a powerful speaker, and a leader in the fight to expose the lies and bring his father’s killers to justice. Dan vowed not to stop until the end, but it was an end that came much too soon for this brave and noble young hero.”
“the film “Dedicated†was made with Dan Wallace, and was made for Dan Wallace well before he was taken from us. This is a tribute to one who has fallen and who leads us still.”
“I only wished Danny could have seen how these people turn things around and use people. Danny was a smart kid and very reasonable to talk to and he will sit and listen to someone side to a story in a debate. But when he called me to look at the Loose Change video I some what believed in some of it but that was because I had no clue about anything Loose Change was telling me so I kept an open mind and did some research of my own. I also told Danny about my doubts but he seemed so caught up in this “Movement for truth†he was almost blind to it. It was like they told him what to think and when you are always with someone (this someone was Luke) that tells you how to think and always has something to say about what experts say I guess you can be blinded. To me Danny just wanted the truth and the answer to why his father died. But he got caught up in these theories instead and was steered away fro m the truth and blinded by these people.
As far as how Danny died, the police did say it was natural. What out family was told by the Autopsy was because of the overdose of unknown pills, sleeping pills or downer pills our family is not sure of what kind of pills he took but because of a combination of that and his heart disease which he were un aware of until his death that is what caused his death. Heart disease and taking those pills.
His girl friend sabrina rivera was with him the night he died. She is heavily into the 911truth.orgmovement.
I do not know the full story of what happened to my nephew but from what we my family were told by Danny’s girl friend sabrina rivera (what i am about to tell you i am still so confused about because her story changed so much into what happened or what he or she did that night, only sabrina rivera really knows)
Version 1: Danny stayed over at her house that night in Queens and was having trouble breathing, sabrina rivera thought nothing of it and just let him sleep and in the morning she found him very blue and called 911.
Version 2: Danny was having trouble sleeping so he took some sleeping pills was having trouble breathing sabrina rivera thought nothing of it so in the morning when she woke she found him blue and not breathing.
Version 3: sabrina rivera and Danny had just got back from a party and Danny had bought the pills at the party from someone, took them to help him fall asleep. He took 1, then said these pills aren’t working so took about 15 or some stupid amount of these pills and later that night was having trouble breathing, sabrina rivera waited till morning when she woke and saw he was blue and not breathing.
Version 4: Danny had bought these pills from this kid and sabrina rivera is unsure how many pills he took or what kind they were but the pills had some numbers on it. In the morning She found him blue and not breathing.
Now after his death our friends were telling all different kind of things that sabrina rivera had told them what happened these were the versions I heard had happened. So many things went in my mind theories. I wanted to put blame but I don’t know the truth. I do know she know more to what happened then she was telling us. But she loved Danny and Danny loved her, she went out with Danny for years I believe it was 7 or 8 years they have been seeing each other. ..CONT..
..CONT..What really kills me though I hear now she is currently with this Luke kid the one that was suppose to be Danny’s newly found best friend who dragged him into the truth911 movement! I am so outraged by this but I keep quite because of my family.
Our Family is together as a whole but Danny’s mother and my mother Danny’s grandmother wants to believe in truth911 movement because Danny believed in it so much as they see it, to me he was almost brain washed and being feed misinformation by them. But they are mothers, what are they suppose to do? shortly after Danny’s death, Dan was suppose to do a speech for the truth911 in Las Vegas but because of his death his mother went there to speak for Danny.
Also what got me, was when Danny was alive the truth 911 was telling Danny they will be making a movie about all of this and he was going to be in the movie. It really seemed to me like they used Dan. Their videos on you tube of Dan really shows it they used Danny and his fathers name so they can push their own ideas on people. It is not a movement for truth but a movement for their thoughts and propaganda to be pushed on victims of 911 and the america people.
You know what really pisses me off about this? It’s not that Luke lied about Dan’s death or Infowars is using a corpse for their gains, but that I am completely unshocked by this entire situation. I’ve been dealing with these psychos for over a year and seen their tactics. This does not surprise me
* A few weeks after this turbulent meeting Dan Wallace died (or was killed) and “We Are Change†initiated when Luke and Les Jamieson, the leader of 9/11 “Truth†parted ways.â€
* Suijuris InfoWarrior: 9/11 A Legal Holiday?
Jul 9, 2008 .. Sabrina A. Rivera Treasurer – Founderhttp://www.WeAreChange.org “Killing for peace is like f***ing for ..
suijurisinfowarrior.blogspot.co. – Optiona
* Rivera Sabrina – Email, Address, Phone number, everything .Jun 17, 2009 .. Sabrina Rivera: Luke Rudkowski’s GF IS A JESUIT! “Americans want to throw off that ideological ..
http://www.123people.com/s/rivera+sabrina -Options
* “The 9/11 Movement in NYC is really strong, both in this group, and in the other important group, We Are Change. I’m active with both groups, as a part of laying the groundwork for planning the big 9/11/09 conference, “Real Change and Transparency.â€
Les Jamieson
National Coordinator
NYC Ballot Initiative / NYCCAN
Here les jamiesons last “get rich— scam.
Can we please have a RICO investigation, dammit?
Quote:
16.. The Commissioners and the NYCAG are not required to devote 100% or substantially all of their time to the work of the
Commission or NYCAG, and it is expected that Commissioners and the NYCAG will be able to continue with non-conflicting
activities including teaching, writing, consulting, Internet activities, and other.
http://nyc911initiative.org/PetitionFinal-01.pdf
Commission members will be paid a base annual salary of $112,500, plus up to $20,000 per year in expenses.
P.S. If you dare,copies of the Urantia “(NSA)” Book can be purchased through the website NYCCAN.ORG. Les Jamieson | 06.01.09 ..
markcrispinmiller.com/2009/07/c. – Options
Here les jamiesons last “get richâ€â€ scam.
Can we please have a RICO investigation, dammit?
Quote:
16.. The Commissioners and the NYCAG are not required to devote 100% or substantially all of their time to the work of the Commission or NYCAG, and it is expected that Commissioners and the NYCAG will be able to continue with non-conflicting activities including teaching, writing, consulting, Internet activities, and other.
http://nyc911initiative.org/PetitionFinal-01.pdf
Commission members will be paid a base annual salary of $112,500, plus up to $20,000 per year in expenses.
Les Jamieson
National Coordinator
NYC Ballot Initiative / NYCCAN Dupe U2
Please Donate More Fool…
P.S. If you dare,copies of the Urantia Book can be purchased through the website NYCCAN.ORG. Les Jamieson | 06.01.09 .
16.. The Commissioners and the NYCAG are not required to devote 100% or substantially all of their time to the work of the Commission or NYCAG, and it is expected that Commissioners and the NYCAG will be able to continue with non-conflicting activities including teaching, writing, consulting, Internet activities, and other.
http://nyc911initiative.org/PetitionFinal-01.pdf
Commission members will be paid a base annual salary of $112,500, plus up to $20,000 per year in expenses.
Please send a donation to our Ballot Initiative here in NYC (NYCCAN.ORG).We have reconfigured our structure with the illustrious Ted Walter manning the helm and controlling all finances and petitioner scheduling (who says being GM and Head Coach is impossible?!) Some men say Ted Who?,others choose to say Why Not? Onward,Les 4.13.09
Les Jamieson
National Coordinator
NYC Ballot Initiative / NYCCAN
Please Donate More…
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